S3E2: Burnout to Breakthrough: Finding Purpose with Nora Wilhelm
Watch and Listen - clicks the links below
What happens when a changemaker pushing for a better world hits burnout? In this episode, I sit down with Nora Wilhelm - a Forbes 30 Under 30 honouree, TEDx speaker, and systems innovator - to talk about the highs and lows of dedicating your life to change.
Nora shares how her journey started at just 15, leading her to co-found collaboratio helvetica in Switzerland and later create the well • change atelier and Parayma - projects that bring creativity, healing, and purpose into the world of social innovation.
We get into:
The reality of burnout and what recovery really looks like
Why creativity and inner work matter just as much as activism and leadership
How Nora found new ways to balance passion, purpose, and wellbeing
The coffee rituals and little joys that keep her grounded
The lessons she’s learned from global recognition to deeply personal struggles
It’s a conversation that’s both lighthearted and real - where we laugh, we get serious, and we explore how to keep going when the work of change feels overwhelming.
Chapters
Connect with Nora on LinkedIn, Instagram or visit her website. Find out more about her work at Parayma and the well • change atelier.
Did you enjoy this episode? Follow ChatterBeans on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok for even more from ChatterBeans. And, subscribe to be the first to hear about new episodes, as soon as they're released!
Want to be on the podcast? Get in touch at www.chatter-beans.com.
Transcript
[00:00]
Nora Wilhelm: …place, but everything looks fine in terms of video quality.
Isaac: You sound great, which is really nice for virtual recordings. Nora, welcome to ChatterBeans—how are you?
Nora Wilhelm: I’m good. How are you?
Isaac: Really good—and glad we could make this happen after talking for a while. We tried to get you on Season 2, and here we are for Season 3. Your CV is impressive: social innovator, entrepreneur, researcher—working for a world where people and the planet can thrive. Recognized as Forbes 30 Under 30 in Switzerland, and in 2023 you co-founded the World Change Atelier. What does life look like for you right now?
Nora Wilhelm: Thank you. It feels nice to have a space for a spontaneous conversation. What’s alive for me is the polarization, contradictions, and tension lines of our time. With access to the internet and history, it’s a wild moment to be human. Among my change-worker friends—people dedicating their lives to justice and protecting the planet—we feel pulled in many directions: systems collapsing, floods, wildfires, droughts, violence, starvation. It can be hard to keep up the spirit and believe a better world is possible—yet I do. I believe we can make a difference and should keep getting up each morning to work toward a more just, inclusive, regenerative—and more beautiful and fun—future.
[05:00]
Isaac: Where did the passion start—was it always there?
Nora Wilhelm: As a kid, I was a bit of a pain in the ass to teachers and peers. I have an ADHD diagnosis—apparently a strong sense of justice can show up there—and I suspect I might be on the autism spectrum. I had an intense sensitivity to justice, injustice, and incoherence—when people said one thing but acted another way. Later I got vocabulary for it—patriarchy, discrimination—but I was already up in arms as a kid.
I also had strong empathy and wanted to connect with people. Switzerland is multilingual; I moved from the German-speaking part to Geneva at five or six without speaking French. Being in a French classroom with people from everywhere gave me a visceral sense of not being understood, and of others having whole inner worlds. That awareness, plus empathy for animals, planted seeds.
My awakening to the state of the world came at 15–16 during an exchange in Canada when I heard a talk related to the Rwanda genocide. It felt like the floor dropped away—how could humans do this? From then on I decided to dedicate my life to making a difference. I didn’t know how yet, but I would figure it out.
[10:00]
Isaac: What were your first steps at that age?
Nora Wilhelm: I came home and said, “I’m vegetarian,” which my parents didn’t love. I was a very vocal critic of things people would rather not face—like who suffers to make our phones or clothes. Many prefer not to know, and I understand—systems tell us it’s just the way things are and we’re powerless. But I kept asking questions and found others who wanted to reflect and act.
I volunteered: Youth Red Cross (big in Geneva), Caritas, Terre des Hommes. I tell young people: knock on the door and ask. I walked into the Red Cross at 16 asking for an internship (unpaid), pitched what I could contribute, and they responded to that energy. Geneva being a UN hub led me to UN youth conferences and the European Youth Parliament—meeting young people who care and want to help.
Isaac: How did that affect your teens and university choices?
Nora Wilhelm: I lost some people; some later reconnected. I was still a teen doing school and grades, but probably had less “fun” than peers. I poured my 20s into work, traveling mostly for work. I don’t regret it—I met my “soul tribe,” like when I became a UNESCO Young Leader in 2017 and met peers from Colombia and Canada doing incredible work. Community grew internationally and locally with others in it for the long run.
[15:00]
Isaac: You studied international affairs—how was that?
Nora Wilhelm: Honestly, boring and disappointing. I expected people who wanted to understand and change how the world works—policy, economics, law. I landed at a university known as a business school in the German-speaking part—more a private-sector/consulting pipeline. I didn’t know that coming from Geneva. I missed deadlines for places like Cambridge/Oxford; Switzerland is great at public education but not at flagging scholarships for “gifted” kids.
By the time I realized the mismatch, I was halfway through, so I finished—with exchanges in Peru and Geneva. Some things were useful, but I’ve since heard valid critiques of business schools as gospel choirs for neoliberalism with sustainability as a footnote. I credit who I am and my skills to what I did outside uni.
Isaac: Did you ever relax?
Nora Wilhelm: I found pockets of joy and friendship, but it wasn’t the priority. There was dedication, and also a compulsive edge—overworking, trying to be everything for everyone, very high standards, feeling like nothing I did was enough.
[20:00]
Isaac: How do you find balance now, given all the public work—TEDx, conferences?
Nora Wilhelm: If I don’t want to burn out again, I need safeguards—like bowling rails. Regular breaks. Retreats: yoga, 10-day silent meditation (nearly drove me insane), nature/wellbeing retreats—digital detox, no Netflix, just nature, body, movement, good food. I also live in seasons. I can’t run at 110% all year—podcasts, speeches, books, programs, mentoring. Typically: intense Sept–mid-Dec, then ~6 weeks off; Feb–May high-pace; summer is travel and behind-the-scenes. I go “full on” twice a year.
Isaac: Let’s talk about burnout. How did it come about, and what was the impact?
[25:00]
Nora Wilhelm: Around 2020, after founding an NGO in Switzerland (to advance systems change—very collaborative, visible, intense), COVID hit. Workload initially paused, then exploded. I had a breakdown in Nov 2020—sobbing in the bathtub, realizing, “This isn’t normal.” I tried to find a psychiatrist—no capacity due to COVID—so I trudged along.
A year later, another low point. I noticed a pattern: breakdowns every June and December, then a break—repeating for 3–4 years. I finally saw a psychiatrist who basically said: burnout and chronic depression (depressed state for 2+ years). I was compensating as a high performer—still working, delivering, giving speeches, even a TEDx—while feeling exhausted, like nothing was ever enough, joy and ease forgotten.
Isaac: How did the diagnosis land, and what did you do next?
Nora Wilhelm: Two reactions: 1) “I failed”—self-criticism fuelled the burnout. 2) Relief—finally a term, validation this isn’t normal, and the possibility of getting better. The sane thing would’ve been to take a break. I didn’t—I project-managed my burnout. I stayed six more months to hire/train a replacement and secure funding. I finished my Cambridge dissertation, hit submit, gave one of my biggest Swiss speeches—and two days later checked into a burnout clinic.
[30:00]
Isaac: How long were you there and what did days look like?
Nora Wilhelm: In Switzerland’s mountain region—beautiful, nature. Initial six weeks, often extended to eight; I stayed two months. I thought, “Six weeks of therapy—I'll be on fire when I leave.” In reality, it was about leaving denial. The “burnout spiral” starts with overwhelm, then denial—“Right now it’s a lot, but in two months it’ll be better”—which I told myself for years. Then you withdraw: fewer friends, less movement, abandon hobbies and health—it worsens.
They told me: it often takes as long to recover as it took to get there. Mine was years; it was a lifestyle. Therapy mix: talk, art, movement, optional dance/music, even boxing (boundaries, anger). Gentle sports, walks, good food, sleep. The environment removed daily stress so I could stop running from myself.
[35:00]
Isaac: How was leaving?
Nora Wilhelm: Daunting. They prepare you—daily schedule, action plan. I found an art therapist, set up supports, and returned gradually: ~20% after 2–3 weeks, then 30%, 40%. It was emotional to leave the clinic community. Back at my organization, I tried to change structures, rhythms, expectations, and my role—but saw the same patterns returning. For my health and the organization’s sustainability, I chose to step out so it wasn’t dependent on me.
I’d done meditation retreats since 2017, but too rarely to change my baseline. Now I do them more regularly and build daily habits, plus accountability from coaches. After the clinic I created the well • change atelier because I’d sidelined creative practices—dancing, singing, instruments, writing—as “hobbies,” even judged them as egoistic given the world’s suffering. I realized creativity is healing and central to change work. Studies suggest dancing alone has very high positive impact on depression. Creativity reminds you you’re a creator—reclaiming agency depression (and systems) tell you you don’t have.
We make art-based workshops accessible—live online, cheap, with scholarships; series like creating with elements: watercolor (water), flame (fire), etc.
[40:00]
Isaac: Is The Well your main focus?
Nora Wilhelm: It’s a side quest—my friends call it an expensive hobby. My main work supports people to increase impact. Many change workers realize their cause work won’t solve root issues—problems are upstream—so I shifted to systems change. After leaving the Swiss org, I asked: who am I now? I had funding to scale what I’d learned over 15 years of change work and eight in systems change.
Now I’m building Paraima—more global, more scalable:
Help people find their purpose/unique contribution (we each hold a piece of the puzzle).
Teach systems thinking and working toward paradigm shifts.
Support current systems-change practitioners with challenges like funding, stakeholder pushback, and burnout risk.
I’m writing three books—one per stage. The first draft wrote fast; editing is gruelling. It’s in late edits; hoping for pre-orders later this year. Book two is underway.
[45:00]
Isaac: You’re also a Dalai Lama Fellow—how did that fit in?
Nora Wilhelm: Fellowships offer support—funding, visibility, training, coaching, and community. The Dalai Lama Fellowship focuses on inner work to enable outer work. If I fight exploitation while exploiting myself, I’m carrying the same paradigm I want to change. We must take responsibility for patterns—anger, jealousy, guilt—whatever they are.
It’s contemplation-oriented but not strictly Buddhist: meditation, meditative painting, conscious dance—pausing to choose our response rather than react. The thesis: this makes us better leaders and humans. They pick ~15 fellows globally each year. You get modules, two coaches (project + contemplation), and a strong peer community. I was an active fellow in 2022–23 and am now a lifelong fellow.
[50:00]
Isaac: Do you get time to enjoy coffee—your go-to order?
Nora Wilhelm: I have semi-unexplained chronic tiredness lingering post-burnout. Tests have ruled out the scary stuff, but it’s ongoing. Without morning coffee, I can’t function. I’ve tried matcha and quitting caffeine, but the tiredness returns—especially after illness. So, coffee is a crutch for now. I love a cappuccino with vegan milk—usually oat.
Isaac: If you could have coffee with anyone?
Nora Wilhelm: Two people: Margaret Wheatley (on who we choose to be in a time of collapse) and Bayo Akomolafe(Yoruba philosopher on belonging, emergence, meeting this moment). His writing challenges me—calls out patterns I might still carry.
Isaac: Is being challenged a nice feeling?
Nora Wilhelm: It’s uncomfortable—and one of my favorites. It means I’m at a growth edge. Even if I can’t absorb it immediately, I note it: revisit when you have the capacity.
[55:00]
Isaac: One piece of advice you’d share with everyone?
Nora Wilhelm: Don’t let anyone convince you that you don’t have power. We wield so much in daily choices—what coffee we buy and what milk we use; how we treat each other; who we vote for; what we participate in; protests; our work. Those who benefit from the status quo fear us realizing our power. Remember: you have so much power.
Isaac: When do you feel most like yourself?
Nora Wilhelm: When giving a speech or workshop and holding space so sparks fly and hope returns—and when no one knows me: alone in a spa, a hammam, swimming in a lake, dancing. The common thread is movement—dance or water.
Isaac: Quickfire—first thing in the morning?
Nora Wilhelm: Prepare coffee. By necessity.
Isaac: Pack a bag—where to?
Nora Wilhelm: My favorite yoga/wellness retreat center.
Isaac: One thing that lifts your mood?
Nora Wilhelm: Playing games—or with children or dogs.
Isaac: A habit you swear by?
Nora Wilhelm: Following moon cycles—set intentions at the new moon, reflect at the full moon.
Isaac: Favorite way to spend a day off?
Nora Wilhelm: Nature walks, mountain lakes or any water, hammam, and great fantasy books.
Isaac: Favorite place you’ve visited?
Nora Wilhelm: Quilmes in Argentina—ancient city built into a mountainside, powerfully preserved; descendants recently reclaimed their land.
Isaac: One risk you’re glad you took?
Nora Wilhelm: Creating Parayma instead of taking a “fancy” job—following the call.
Isaac: Time travel—forward, backward, or stay?
Nora Wilhelm: Philosophical! Can we change the past? I’ll meditate on it.
Isaac: A small joy recently?
Nora Wilhelm: My foster puppy, Chucho—totally present and joyful with his ball or favorite stone.
Isaac: Where can people connect, and follow your work and book?
Nora Wilhelm: For burnout/resilience and art-based practices: the well • change atelier (website + all major socials). For purpose and systems work: Parayma (P-A-R-A-Y-M-A). Otherwise, find me on LinkedIn, my website, or Instagram—DMs open.
Isaac: We’ll tag everything in the description. Nora, thank you for joining ChatterBeans.
Nora Wilhelm: Thank you—it was a joy.
